Watch Doug Bailey, Unity08 Founders Council member, mix it up with Glenn Beck on CNN Headline Prime about how a Unity Ticket could transform politics.
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Watch Doug Bailey, Unity08 Founders Council member, mix it up with Glenn Beck on CNN Headline Prime about how a Unity Ticket could transform politics.
Doug Bailey talked sense. The bottom line of both talkers implied top of the charts candidates were the ball game. That can only happen if U08 is really BIG really IN TIME.
The issues to raise between now and then are the problem: Immigration is a divider -- rightly so -- avoid it. The war is a divider -- wrongly so -- if we are not for victory I'll quit. Money-reform, the only issue that can save the world, is a non-starter because nobody gets it.
John Gelles
Human rights and how to pay for them are key to a livable world.
JohnGelles,
I am with you in spirit but am asking is immigration really unimportant? Seems that one of the things that has middle America very upset is the "Politicians" pretending to address the issue we consider important but really just playing games with it and then doing nothing.
In the meantime (1) the legal immigration system is a nightmare for folks who are doing the right thing and coming to join us (2) the illegal problem just gets worse and harms us (3) the borders remain insecure.
Can Unity08 claim to be different if we also hide from the tought issues?
I stand 100% with you on the War John, the goal is to win the US faces real threats and needs to be more secure.
vry,
RET
I am troubled by John Gelles' comment on the war that "if we are not for victory I'll quit."
First, I have to say that I'm sure that each of us has strongly held opinions and beliefs and that we are entitled to state them.
Having said that, I would hope that these forums would go beyond simply stating our individual "bottom lines" on issues and become a real source of discussion and engagement on how to find common ground.
For my own part, I strongly supported the decision to go into Afghanistan as an appropriate targeted response to 911. I did not support the decision to go to war in Iraq because I was not convinced that the Iraq invasion was a logical response to the attacks of 911 (in fact I felt it would divert effort from completing the task in Afghanistan). I also questioned how going to war in the region without strong international support would advance the security of this country. My view of our decision to go to war has not changed during the course of the conflict--if anything my concerns have deepened.
But what each of us is faced with, whether we supported the decision to enter Iraq or not, is what is the best way to move forward. I would hope that our discussions at Unity 08 can help us find a common policy for the future irrespective of our perceptions of past decisions.
And so, I would ask my new friend John (and anyone else) to help me to understand what "victory" means in the context of the Iraq war. What are the positive objectives we can still achieve through our presence in Iraq? Do those objectives warrant further loss of American and Iraqi lives? How do they make us more secure in the long run? How will we recognize that it is time to wind down operations in Iraq?
I hope that my post will be perceived in the spirit that it is offered. We will not all agree on issues nor is that necessary. We can create unity by advancing civil discussion seeking common ground.
. Mark Taylor was right to call me on the tone in which I expressed my beliefs and feelings in the topical matter above.
I believe none of us can persuade anyone else of anything at all in this area.
So my position is this: The President and his top military commanders have done all the good (and perhaps less than our best) up till now. They may pull back or remain up forward -- relative to our promises of human rights and our interest in the Persial Gulf.
I will shut-up my mouth, (I have wished we would have followed General Shinseki's experienced expertese -- and not thought too much of what we could do on the cheap,) and I will accept what our Constitutionally defined responsible CIC and commanders do between now and when new ones may be elected and appointed.
If Unity 08 opposes our President and his commanders, without far more proof than we have seen so far that "the unelected opposition" (like the Democrats and idiot leftist academics) has the wit to do better -- if that happens -- I'll vote only for a candidate who is not a defeatest, not a person who seems far closer to me to be a Chamberlain -- not a Churchill.
Marks asks what is victory: that's easy -- it's human rights in Iraq and zero oil money flowing to thugs who would bomb America until we cry "uncle" and they impose an insane approach to human rights and whatever happened to the Islamic reformation that failed to happen.
John Gelles
Human rights and how to pay for them are key to a livable world.
We killed 100,000 trained terrorists in the mountains and since have hunted down the entire deck of cards except the joker... now we implement positive identification for all citizens of Iraq and remove hard currency, build walls between fighting tribes. Suddam emptied out his bank, dumped billions in U.S. currency in the streets which now feeds the enemy, so eliminate hard currency in Iraq for now... www.appyp.com/fix_main.html
I think you mean 100,000 civilians. And please don't say "we" -- many of "us" were and are opposed to invading and occupying other countries without cause or provocation.
Positive ID, martial law, and no paper money? Sounds like a totalitarian nightmare, not freedom.
It will be a test of the emergency marshall law system... have everyone in Iraq turn in their paper money and issue a I.D./ATM card with credits... and if we are smart we would give them a shot in the arm that included a gps tracking chip and not even tell them! That's a little hitech terrorism from us! Who is that masked man! www.appyp.com/fix_main.html
No, we killed 100,000 B. Laden trained Taliban soldiers/terrorists in the hills during the early days of the Afgan war... the ones Bill Clinton permitted to be trained and prep'd for attacking us... George Bush has done good and now we can bring our troops home and go golfing right after we initiate the construction of oil rigs and refineries offshore and in Nevada! Think we'll bring down the price of oil now! Then tell the Chinese what to do with Korea and their trinkets! Whatta ya think folks! www.appyp.com/fix_main.html
FAIR TRADE VS. FREE TRADE
By Kirk Polizzi
We do not as Americans have to look too far to see the economic results of free trade agreements overseas. All over the United States factories large and small have closed and are closing. The once great American auto, steel, coal, iron ore, and textile industries, are barely operating. If this is our answer to free trade, we as Americans, want no part of it.
Protectionism in a global economy will destroy us as a great economic power, but what we have been doing these last thirty years, is presently destroying us. Under the banner of free trade, both political parties, Republican as well as Democrat, have not put American workers first. I know of no true American who would pay for a cheaper item, more cheaply made, at the expense of any American worker. Unfortunately, our governments trade policies are forcing the American people to do just that.
Any economic trade policy must put America and Americans first. No agreement should be signed without the consent of Congress (fast track trade authority is unconstitutional) or the majority of the American people or the majority of American labor organizations. Whether we agree or disagree with the nation’s labor movement, and I do not always agree with them, they do put American workers first, and that is more then I can say about our present political leadership.
Our country cannot sign free trade agreements just for the sake of an agreement. These agreements must protect American workers and their jobs. We cannot continue to export jobs; we need to start again exporting goods. Today, the United States is an import country, importing entirely too many goods from overseas. We cannot become dependent on steel and other goods, as we have with oil. Our country is too rich with goods and strong with American know how, to let this continue, it must cease.
We can do all of this once again, if our government will get out of the way with the free trade idea, and build a national consensus for fair trade, with every trading partner overseas, whether they are a close ally, or not. With our economic know how, not one auto plant should ever shut down, not one steel or textile mill, should ever close, because we are buying from overseas, industry, that we ourselves, should be producing. After all we are Americans, we did it all once before, we can do it again.
Let American made be more then just a slogan, let’s make it a reality again, built into our economy, keeping jobs here at home with the United States exporting goods and services throughout the world.
Kirk Polizzi
Chillicothe, IL
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This topic should focus our thoughts on Doug Bailey's responses to Glenn Beck on CNN -- which were about how a Unity Ticket could transform politics.
Bailey thought Unity's idea of (1) a Bipartisan Ticket, (2) an On/Line Convention, (3) a Can-do professional nonpartisan Cabinet, and (4) concentration on Real Issues -- all four elements of the idea -- could make a positive difference in politics, could be good for the future that so often seems imperiled.
I was and am concerned that the ticket, convention and cabinet sound perfect BUT the "Real Issues", as part of our plan, masks the immense problem of DECIDING what these are.
The war, globalization, energy, environment, education, and corruption of the elective process by money and possibly new machines, are all REAL issues -- and each provokes REAL divisions among thinking people.
We are committed to democracy -- which is a system committed to compromise and consensus. In theory, c and c will work if our lawmakers consider the evidence and remain guided by principle "not greed, ambition and fund-raising to be re-elected (NGAFRTBR)."
Now what if NGAFRTBR is an oxymoron -- it just can't exist in a democracy based on thought surrounded by money?
I cannot answer this riddle. But the more you think about "money", the more you come to understand that it is a system -- and that it needs the attention of systems engineers. Our lawyers define it, bankers control it, accountants measure it, but where are the engineers who know how to design systems to do what we want them to do: we want our money to (1) promote freedom and (2) end avoidable wars and poverty. It seems to be doing only half its job.
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John Gelles
Unity-now wiki
My Website
Human rights and how to pay for them are key to a livable world.
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I really like Kirk Polizzi's positions. I just named "globalization" as the second BIG issue before the nation -- and before this movement.
Kirk calls this "Fair Trade" -- and I agree they're the same. Kirk sees stronger pro-labor standards as necessary missing elements in our past treaties. He is right -- but getting trading partners to agree is no easy matter.
My approach requires no agreement by our partners. It is solely within our power to do what we must to survive as a great nation and protect our people from a race to the bottom, a race to wage slavery of the very worst kind.
America must create a Strategic Production System (SPS) to protect our freedom from markets that favor lowest cost production of quality products.
The SPS will make ample use of prize juries to upgrade the design and production of things that lowest cost systems have cheapened and degraded.
It will introduce tax and debt free money systems where they can be effective.
It will rely more on component cost price, than on end-product market price, to finance production and distribution of better things for a better nation.
OK -- much of the above is undefined and untested. But what Kirk and I and YOU know is that current trends will see America down the toilet and all manufacturing done in Asia.
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John Gelles
Unity-now wiki
My Website
Human rights and how to pay for them are key to a livable world.
I am enjoying my time here at unity 08, but already, I have my doubts whether all of us here can have a real open debate as centrists.
First and foremost, we live in a free country, and everybody has a right to his or her opinion. If unity 08 was set up by people who are advocating change, real changes, against the conservative and the liberal theories, lately, it has become very hard to find.
I am not a liberal, I am a registered Democrat, but I am as centrist as you can be. It seems everytime here at this site, when I explain some real good economic policies for the country, a die hard Bush loving Republican jumps in and tries to support that old tired Republican theory, a theory I may add that is as tired as the liberal theories of the 1960's.
This is supposed to be a site for centrists in politics who are tired of the status quo in Washington, not a site for Bush loving Republicans, or Ted Kennedy loving Democrats.
This site has a lot of potential, and I think we can all make a difference. We can only do so however, if we leave the Republicans where they belong, on Republican sites, and the die hard Democrats where they belong on their sites.
We have heard them all over and over again, with no new approaches, no new ideas, no new policies, that is why we are here, to offer those new ideas.
Kirk Polizzi
It seem to me this is all about imposing tariffs and other barriers to trade, at a time when it's impossible to build new steel plants and textile mills in the USA due to environmental restrictions and NIMBY syndrome.
So the government adds tarriff money to its coffers. How does that benefit ordinary Americans who will end up paying more for imported steel and textiles?
A waste of T.V. time...
We must reach from outside the two parties for leadership, cabinet members yes, but leadership no... as they are blind to real solutions because of association... As G.B. knows this quite well - don't be fooled by fox again!
I say this not because I like potential candidates from both sides, but we must gain those who hate both sides to win...
TOUGH IMMIGRATION POLICIES
By Kirk Polizzi
The issue of illegal and legal immigration is a very divisive one. I am a Grandson of a Sicilian immigrant, and one would think that I would greet all immigrants with open arms. In reality, this is not the case, my reasons are not selfish, not mean spirited, or prejudiced, they are reasonable and understandable for the times in which we live.
When my Grandfather immigrated to America at the turn of the 20th century, our country was a much different nation. Our federal government at the time had no programs for any people, whether they were American born or foreign. I am not saying that was good for America, but we have going on today, across our borders is obscene to the point of criminal. Remember too, that my Grandfather like millions of others came here legally, and that is a big difference as well.
The immigration issue is an economic issue. We can not advocate fair trade agreements, and keeping American jobs here at home on the one hand, but allow our borders to be wide open for illegal immigrants to enter our country, and take jobs away from the American people. We must also address the issue of immigration, period. That means both illegal and legal. I am an advocate of legal immigration limits, or quotas, whatever it takes, to control this flood of foreigners into our country.
Diversity made America great, but there are real dangers in too much diversity. I do not buy the argument that only people who are immigrants will work hard, and do jobs that pay a low wage. We hear this all the time from business people, but it is very possible, if not probable, that some business owners want these people, because they know they will not have to pay them a decent wage, plus, offer them any type of benefits.
Let’s be honest, many of today’s immigrants make their money here, and send money home to wherever they have relatives. I believe in a diverse country, and that it makes us a better, stronger country. The issue of immigration is an economic one pure and simple. It all goes back to my earlier points: this country has got to pay people a living wage, one that they can raise a family on, one that allows them to live in dignity.
Many illegal immigrants as well as legal immigrants who enter our country are taking jobs away from the American people. I must ask, “who else are they taking jobs from”? We welcome all people’s from all over the world who want to come to America legally, but we cannot take them all, that is the reality of today’s America. It’s time our leaders in Washington understand that we must look after the American people first, and the American worker first.